Last month, Utah Business hosted a roundtable conversation sponsored by Northwestern Mutual and moderated by Melanie Jones, CEO of the Women’s Leadership Institute. The roundtable discussed the forces reshaping Utah’s labor market — from the AI revolution to a rising generation that is redefining what it expects from employers.
Utah keeps getting called the most resilient economy in the nation, but resilient doesn’t mean frictionless. What’s the one thing about the current labor market that the headline numbers aren’t capturing?
Nate Lloyd | Director, Economic Research | Kem C. Gardner Policy Institute
The headlines miss longer-term trends. Labor force participation rates are declining, both nationally and in Utah. That means fewer workers and people looking for work as a share of our total adult population. … Migration has been a strong component of demographic and population growth in our state. International migration is way down in the last year because of federal policies. We are a state sensitive to migration patterns, and when it declines, that is maybe what’s being reflected in this decline of labor force participation.
Jake Maxwell | Deputy Director | Salt Lake City Department of Economic Development
One thing I’ve noted is the skills mismatch. Eight years ago, I listened to a podcast about how students go to school to get a good job, but it doesn’t often happen. … I haven’t seen a big improvement in the education system trying to align themselves to the workforce. We’ve seen many education providers, like Coursera and Udacity, creep up to serve that need and provide microcredentials and nanodegrees and other modes of people becoming certified for jobs.
Who has the advantage — employers or candidates — and does that answer change depending on what sector or wage level you’re talking about?
Dustee Ingram | Chief Development Officer | Northwestern Mutual
In my heart of hearts, I think the employer has the advantage, but if we are looking at the next generation, a paycheck only goes so far. … Candidates change and evaluate companies more intentionally than they used to, because they can apply for a job within 10 seconds, and they can alter their resume within 10 seconds. … Freedom and flexibility are the number one [priorities] that I have seen in interviews, and I’ve done over a thousand interviews in the last year [with] Gen Z. The last thing that they ask about is pay.
Weston Miller | Assistant Director | Workforce Development Division
Five of the 10 major sectors posted year-over-year job gains just this past year. Some of the ones that are doing well are business services, educational and health services, and financial activities. Some of the ones that are struggling the most would be leisure and hospitality, manufacturing, and natural resources. We do have a [high] unemployment rate. When we do see that, … the majority comes to the employers’ gain.
Johnny Ferry | CEO & President | Utah Manufacturers Association
What we’re experiencing on the manufacturing side is one of the major impacts is cost of living. We all know this; to live here in this state gets more and more expensive. You’re going to see people exiting because they can’t afford to take a line job, frontline leader, supervisor job, or a manager position, and live a good life.
How has AI been impacting the workforce? Has anybody seen in their fields AI replacing jobs, where layoffs occur because AI is handling some of these tasks?
Thomas Houser | HR Manager | Deseret News
You have fear on both sides. Thinking of [my] industry and business with some writing and research, we see a little bit of both. We’re getting a little bit of clarity to say the industry and the world are coming to a realization that we have AI and it should be used for certain things, but there’s some things it’s just not great at still. I had a great experience last week with having AI and Microsoft Excel help us to simplify some processes, but I could have easily still done it as quickly just by looking at it and being able to pick out some information. I think AI is getting there. It’s getting helpful, but it’s really a tool that’s helping us. It’s just a change in how we view our jobs, and I think most people are coming to the realization that they can use it for their benefit.
Nate Lloyd | Director, Economic Research | Kem C. Gardner Policy Institute
There’s an interesting study out of Stanford that looks at the early evidence of employment effects of AI, and it is disproportionately affecting younger aged and less tenured workers. … Call service agents, customer service representatives and software developers are seeing more negative effects. … Young people still have some advantages and should be hopeful for the future because of what AI will create with these new employment opportunities and their ability to adapt to new technologies. … Those who learn it the best will be more productive employees and be rewarded in their careers.
Someone in this room has almost certainly had this experience: You post a job, get a hundred applications, and can’t find one person who’s actually ready to do it. Why is that happening?
Bruna De Conti | Director, Recruitment and Selection | Northwestern Mutual
This emphasizes the importance of recruiting with individuals instead of just AI tools. It emphasizes the importance of actually having the interview … and the human connection. The conversation is more around, … do I have the candidate with the quality of work that I am trying to reach? It’s less of … how perfect the resume is and more about what their prior experience was.
Maren DeFries | VP, Recruiting Operations Manager | Zions Bank
We definitely see a lot of AI-optimized resumes, and it’s almost like we need to just go back to what old school recruiting is: Pick up the phone, call someone, make sure you’re talking to them.
I know other companies are seeing more candidates applying with AI. There are a lot of services that they can just give them their resume, and it’ll go out and apply for the roles for them. When we give them a call, they have no idea that they even applied for us because they didn’t actually do it. Dealing with that volume, recruiters are going through to see who is really qualified and interested. That means talking to those people, having good interviews and working with our managers to have those conversations with them to determine who’s the best fit.
Sheila Yorkin | Chief Communications Officer | Westminster University
We’re all inundated every day with so much information, and being able to make ethical and sound decisions, those are rare [traits] I find when I’m interviewing. I want someone who is a sound decision maker and has critical thinking skills. We can train on-the-job for a lot of other things, but it’s hard to really train someone for empathy, cultural awareness and the ability to distill a lot of information.
There’s a version of the American Dream that says, “Get a degree, get a good job.” But we’re watching a lot of credentialed people end up underemployed or in the gig economy. Where did that promise break down, and whose problem is it to fix?
Erin Trenbeath-Murray | VP, Philanthropy | Ken Garff Enterprises
Women Who Succeed was co-founded … to help young women find leadership roles in Utah. We look for women who are well-established, and they mentor college-age women who mentor high school girls, who mentor middle school girls. Utah is No. 1 for women who drop out of college. Completely unacceptable. We’re doing everything we can to help get these young women on a level playing field. … That’s what Utah does; … We take care of each other.
Weston Miller | Assistant Director | Workforce Development Division
Apprenticeships are not going away anytime soon. We see a lot of value in putting people into the educational and networking component with an employer at the table, while they’re learning and earning a wage. … There’s a lot of desirable jobs out there that people typically will write off just because they’re trades by nature. But they’re high-paying jobs, and there’s a lot of apprenticeship programs that are registered for that.
Generational differences keep coming up in workforce conversations — different expectations around communication, flexibility, loyalty. Is that a real friction point in recruiting and retention, or is it an excuse we lean on too easily?
Erin Trenbeath-Murray | VP, Philanthropy | Ken Garff Enterprises
The workforce coming out of college is not coming to us ready to problem solve quickly, be decisive and to come to work on time regularly. In the conversations that we have had with university presidents, what we have heard is… they’re not attending class. … We can say COVID set us on that path, and I think that we are having a hard time swaying back. It’s getting to the employer, and the employer is figuring it out with the employee.
Sheila Yorkin | Chief Communications Officer | Westminster University
We’re starting to see research looking at the younger generation … who are really craving connection, and they’re very skeptical of AI and influencers. … It’ll be interesting to see what the workforce looks like in five or 10 years, … because they seem to be a rebound to Gen Z and millennials’ behaviors. They want that connection back and don’t want to be interacting on devices as much. … That could be really positive, especially for in-person experiences and workplaces.
Tell me about a hire — or a recruitment strategy — that actually worked. What made it different?
Thomas Houser | HR Manager | Deseret News
One thing that I love to do while we’re making final decisions is to have a team go to lunch with an applicant. So many times, I feel like applicants feel that they’re being interviewed, but they’re not given the chance to interview the company. … [At the lunch,] you can have good conversations. You can dive deeper than just the hiring questions that you normally ask. You can find some more about the people, … but more so for them to feel like they can be a good fit for you and for your company. That’s something that we love to do.
Maren DeFries | VP, Recruiting Operations Manager | Zions Bank
We had a position that we had been working on for a long time for a really specific skill set, but hadn’t been able to find anyone. We did a social media push and utilized the network of all of our employees. We had all of our employees post it out on LinkedIn, and it got thousands of views. Just by utilizing the networks of our employees, we were able to get it out and to a broad enough reach that we were able to find a couple of potential candidates through that. … The people who are in those types of roles know the other people who are in those types of roles. Leaning on that through social media, LinkedIn, referrals and those types of things can really help to find the right types of candidates.
If we’re serious about building a stronger talent pipeline, the work has to start earlier than a job posting. What’s happening upstream in schools, communities and youth programs that gives you hope?
Erin Trenbeath-Murray | VP, Philanthropy | Ken Garff Enterprises
What gives me hope is that I … hear from the superintendents, university presidents, teachers, or principals. I hear and see across the state this concerted effort to do more, to do better. There’s this really strong sense of being able to identify where there are gaps. I think that that gives me hope. … There are leaders in the school systems and in the communities that are trying to find unique pathways to help prepare students to be ready for the next century for Utah.
Johnny Ferry | CEO & President | Utah Manufacturers Association
We are being more open to bringing younger students and those who could eventually be those workers in those buildings. We’re letting them see how cool it is when these machines are whirling, the robotics that’s going on, … and that you can be that technician or leader or supply chain manager. … I see a lot of positive progress there.
If you could change one thing — one policy, one practice, one perception — that would move the needle most on Utah’s workforce challenges over the next five years, what would it be?
Thomas Houser | HR Manager | Deseret News
It’s important to realize that rising generations are not too fragile. That’s a perception that people always have. The reality is that they fail fast, they learn from it and they change. As long as we’re willing to give them those opportunities and be okay with them failing, they’re going to land on their feet. I do realize that it’s going to be painful for us at times, as employers and as businesses, but we need to have patience and realize that we, too, at one time, did not know what we were doing. They’re going to rise to be great leaders, great entrepreneurs, great employees. We’re going to need them because things change too quickly.
Weston Miller | Assistant Director | Workforce Development Division
We have 5,300 apprentices in Utah right now. Last year, we added 1,800 of those apprentices to the various programs that we help administer. We’re seeing them in automotive, construction, information technology, manufacturing, transportation and even into healthcare and education, which is really leveraging a lot of unique and new opportunities. If we were to change something, it would be growth in registered apprentices and directing job seekers to actually participate through those programs.
Johnny Ferry | CEO & President | Utah Manufacturers Association
Embrace the AI revolution. Let it be there to give you what we didn’t have, which is an opportunity for even more ideas to be out there. We need to remember that they’re available, but then don’t forget your own personal talent to filter and create something beautiful. … Embrace it, but use it in a way that helps to create and be the one who puts your own personal touch to it.
Bruna De Conti | Director, Recruitment and Selection | Northwestern Mutual
Make clear expectations when onboarding for the sake of the candidate and the firm. Oftentimes, I talk to people who are coming from different jobs or careers and they say, “Oh, I got there and it was nothing like I thought it was going to be.” Clear expectations and transparency are important and go a long way because it starts building trust between the employer and candidate.
Jake Maxwell | Deputy Director | Salt Lake City Department of Economic Development
Closer alignment between education and industries, and that starts at K-12. I would love for every child who graduates high school to know of the top 50 to 100 jobs in their community and have a general sense of what those actually entail and having professionals in their fields communicate those durable skills that they’re looking for.
Nate Lloyd | Director, Economic Research | Kem C. Gardner Policy Institute
The education system can provide more experiential learning opportunities. I think of places like the Analytics Solutions Center at Utah State University, which is offering students real-world projects with real-world companies and organizations and helps instill confidence in students. Nimbleness in higher education would be great to see. You see it at places like WGU, which just launched an AI engineering bachelor’s degree, the first online bachelor’s degree in the country focused on AI engineering. That type of nimbleness is important when technology is advancing so quickly.
Sheila Yorkin | Chief Communications Officer | Westminster University
I would say investment in education, whether that’s philanthropically or the state continuing or maintaining its investments in education. And we, as business and education leaders, need to be making our voices heard on an ongoing basis about how our lifestyle in Utah might be affected by policy decisions that could, in the long run, influence where our workforce comes from.
Maren DeFries | VP, Recruiting Operations Manager | Zions Bank
One perception that candidates have when they apply is, “No one is going to read my resume. It’s going through an AI filter. No one actually sees it. What’s the point?” There’s a lot of discouragement there, which I understand. We as employers want to say that they are seen and that we want to hear from candidates who make themselves known to us.
